Curse

Richardt · Apr 17, 2008, 05:31 AM // 05:31

Quote:

Originally Posted by Clarissa F

Of course, they went a bit far by making them overpowered; and I'm talking about most of the skills. You think Ursan is overpowered? Try a team with imbagons spamming TNtF and SY.

Couple things wrong here.

1) A team normally takes only 1 Imbagon-any more and it's a waste (unless you're trying some sort of split tatics).

2) In order to sustain SY!, you need to have half of your skill bar dedicated to running just that one skill. With Ursan, it's just that-bring the blessing and you're off. The rest of your bar is basically window dressing.

So how can we spam ANet to get the avatar idea going?

RavagerOfDreams · Apr 17, 2008, 05:34 AM // 05:34

Quote:

Originally Posted by Powerful White Man

Delete It.
The End.

quoted for epic truth

Rene Saliere · Apr 27, 2008, 07:21 PM // 19:21

Wait I finally have a good nerf idea:

To be able to participate in Hard Mode you have to complete a campaign with a character on your account.

To be able to participate in Easy Mode (ie: ursanway), you should need to have failed all the quests in a campaign.

MasterSasori · Apr 30, 2008, 07:01 PM // 19:01

Quote:

Originally Posted by Rene Saliere

I just hope that they try and balance out the professions so that no one build/archetype dominates 99% of the game - like 'bear form' - or anything like that because that would make Guild Wars really boring and stupid.

Fat chance. With GW2 coming along, GW isn't getting enough attention and UB basically dominates PvE. ANET also has no intention of removing it either.

KennyC · May 01, 2008, 10:18 AM // 10:18

Get rid of Ursan its bloody ridiculous!

nembool · May 02, 2008, 06:55 AM // 06:55

Anybody here played the Bonus Mission Pack quests? For those who haven't, Togo's story has him using a skill called Dragon Empire Rage which is an area effect nuke. But it has to be charged up by killing a certain amount of enemies first (usual progress bar showing how charged it is).

Why not introduce this for Ursan/Raven/Volfen? You could then stage the amount of kills needed to fill the progress bar and charge the Blessing skills, so that the more powerful Blessing (read: Ursan) takes say 30 kills to charge up, whilst Volfen and Raven take respectively less kills to offset their relative unpopularity or perceived weaknesses compared to Ursan.

This would, at least, force Ursan players to develop some semblance of skill at the game in order to charge Ursan, especially in Hard Mode/Elite areas.

stretchs · May 02, 2008, 04:01 PM // 16:01

Ursan while it has it's bashers, it has allowed many different people in many different professions the ability to do things they would have never been able to. The holy trinity was the only thing prior to get play.

If I were to adjust Ursan, which I think it could use some tinkering to make it more fitting to gw's previous mechanics. I would def make the dual attack melee instead of whatever nonsense it is, that way a blind, or hex could prevent you from doing so. As well, removing ALL att lines would probably not work, as for an ele his energy goes to bubkis, but outside of them, turning all the primary atts to 0 would make a large difference. Besides those things though, I really see no problem with the skill as it opens to door to far too many people to play at higher levels instead of being very exclusionary.

MasterSasori · May 02, 2008, 08:02 PM // 20:02

Quote:

Originally Posted by nembool

Anybody here played the Bonus Mission Pack quests? For those who haven't, Togo's story has him using a skill called Dragon Empire Rage which is an area effect nuke. But it has to be charged up by killing a certain amount of enemies first (usual progress bar showing how charged it is).

Why not introduce this for Ursan/Raven/Volfen? You could then stage the amount of kills needed to fill the progress bar and charge the Blessing skills, so that the more powerful Blessing (read: Ursan) takes say 30 kills to charge up, whilst Volfen and Raven take respectively less kills to offset their relative unpopularity or perceived weaknesses compared to Ursan.

This would, at least, force Ursan players to develop some semblance of skill at the game in order to charge Ursan, especially in Hard Mode/Elite areas.

This won't work because UB takes up the elite and who the hell wants to pick someone without an elite? It also depends on the number of character though so you MAY be able to get by.

nembool · May 03, 2008, 09:20 AM // 09:20

Quote:

Originally Posted by MasterSasori

This won't work because UB takes up the elite and who the hell wants to pick someone without an elite? It also depends on the number of character though so you MAY be able to get by.

Ignoring the fact that many people DO play without an elite skill, your reply is wrong for two reasons.

One: You have an elite, Ursan Blessing.

Two: Many elites are situational and depend upon conditions being met in order for them to be optimal, or even activate at all.

The OP requested just some thoughts on how we, as individuals, would nerf Ursan. I think my idea, that doesn't actually nerf it at all as there are no suggested changes to the skill functionality when in Ursan mode, works for the reasons I stated in my last paragraph.

MasterSasori · May 03, 2008, 05:23 PM // 17:23

Quote:

Originally Posted by nembool

Ignoring the fact that many people DO play without an elite skill, your reply is wrong for two reasons.

Ummm no people don't play without elites unless they don't have them.

[QUOTE=nemboolOne: You have an elite, Ursan Blessing.

Two: Many elites are situational and depend upon conditions being met in order for them to be optimal, or even activate at all.

The OP requested just some thoughts on how we, as individuals, would nerf Ursan. I think my idea, that doesn't actually nerf it at all as there are no suggested changes to the skill functionality when in Ursan mode, works for the reasons I stated in my last paragraph.[/QUOTE]

I specifically said that Ursan takes up the Elite spot and that people won't pick a person who can't use their elite unless they fill some other requirement.

For your second reason, if you are referring to conditions and hexes, you have to consider why did you bring it in the first place. Divert Hex for example, would be useless if there is no hexes so bringing it would be pointless unless there are alot of hexes in the area.

People don't use Volfen/Raven anyway so the kill limit doesn't really effect them.

Besides when the UB are all deactivated, they become fairly useless.

nembool · May 03, 2008, 06:22 PM // 18:22

Quote:

Originally Posted by MasterSasori

Ummm no people don't play without elites unless they don't have them.

I specifically said that Ursan takes up the Elite spot and that people won't pick a person who can't use their elite unless they fill some other requirement.

For your second reason, if you are referring to conditions and hexes, you have to consider why did you bring it in the first place. Divert Hex for example, would be useless if there is no hexes so bringing it would be pointless unless there are alot of hexes in the area.

People don't use Volfen/Raven anyway so the kill limit doesn't really effect them.

Besides when the UB are all deactivated, they become fairly useless.

If someone can make a workable build without an Elite skill, and groups advertising for players cannot recognise this, then those groups deserve to fail.

Secondly, I'm not referring to conditions such as Bleeding. I'm referring to the set of circumstances that must exist in order to use a skill. To use your example, if you bring Divert Hexes, there must be hexes to divert or the skill slot is wasted. It's the existence of a circumstance needed to effectively use the skill I refer to.

If my suggestion were to be implemented, and let's face it, Arenanet won't change anything about Ursan/Volfen/Raven now, then people might use the lesser blessings simply because they activate faster.

And whilst an inactive/recharging Ursan Blessing is useless, the player who uses UB as an elite is not. He still has seven other skill slots with which to perform effectively as a member of a team. If he can't, he's a bad player.

Tyla · May 03, 2008, 06:32 PM // 18:32

Builds can work without an elite skill...
True, but who wouldn't use an elite skill?

Having it like that would make it extremely situational, not a nerf, but a nuke.
In that case, Imbagon should take a hit too.

But the point still stands, if you're not going to use an elite skill, you're either extremely stupid or extremely bad.
Taking advantage of skills that can be used straight off and not have a kill buildup is good.

la_cabra_de_vida · May 03, 2008, 06:35 PM // 18:35

Seriously why do you people care about ursan or it being op? Its PVE? Who cares?

MasterSasori · May 03, 2008, 07:31 PM // 19:31

Quote:

Originally Posted by la_cabra_de_vida

Seriously why do you people care about ursan or it being op? Its PVE? Who cares?

This entire thread is brimming with reasons for both supporting and hating Ursan. You can easily find them if you look back.

MasterSasori · May 03, 2008, 07:41 PM // 19:41

Quote:

Originally Posted by nembool

If someone can make a workable build without an Elite skill, and groups advertising for players cannot recognise this, then those groups deserve to fail.

All builds are workable but what you want is optimal.

Quote:

Originally Posted by nembool

If my suggestion were to be implemented, and let's face it, Arenanet won't change anything about Ursan/Volfen/Raven now, then people might use the lesser blessings simply because they activate faster.

I don't think other people will turn to the other blessings but rather other more overpowered builds such as Imbagon and D-slash warriors.

Quote:

Originally Posted by nembool

And whilst an inactive/recharging Ursan Blessing is useless, the player who uses UB as an elite is not. He still has seven other skill slots with which to perform effectively as a member of a team. If he can't, he's a bad player.

Depends what you mean by effectively. Depending on your class, the role you play may be different depending whether you're in Ursan or not; it may lead to a ineffectual team. Besides, many of those who rely on Ursan don't have good builds anyway.

nembool · May 03, 2008, 09:05 PM // 21:05

Quote:

Originally Posted by MasterSasori

All builds are workable but what you want is optimal.

I don't think other people will turn to the other blessings but rather other more overpowered builds such as Imbagon and D-slash warriors.

Depends what you mean by effectively. Depending on your class, the role you play may be different depending whether you're in Ursan or not; it may lead to a ineffectual team. Besides, many of those who rely on Ursan don't have good builds anyway.

Kinda depends on the situation. I'll run a less-than-optimal build if it's fun to use. I'm trying out Blood Magic builds on my necro at the moment, despite the fact it's well known as a weak skill line compared to Curses.

Perhaps in putting a case against Ursan, we're missing the point? Using any of the blessings, regardless of how they compare to each other, means that a player has effectively twelve skills whereas a player not using Blessings only has eight. This is obviously imbalanced even compared to Imbagon or D-Slash SY.

Maybe the skill Totem of Man should be adjusted so that switching out of Ursan, whether voluntarily or involuntarily, is worse? Perhaps instead of losing all energy, the penalty should be more severe. Tried to consider ways to make the penalty more severe, like causing an automatic -6 energy degen for 15 seconds. Unfortunately that won't penalize certain classes with good energy management, like Necros/Assassins/Paragons as well as some Warrior skills like Bonetti's Defense.

Increase the recharge time of Ursan Blessing to 60 seconds?

ShadowsRequiem · May 03, 2008, 09:22 PM // 21:22

Give it a cooldown like the gods tranformations.... Or just remove it from play XD

nembool · May 03, 2008, 09:30 PM // 21:30

Quote:

Originally Posted by ShadowsRequiem

Give it a cooldown like the gods tranformations.... Or just remove it from play XD

Which brings to mind another thought: why didn't Arenanet make Ursan Blessing like the Dervish Avatar skills? From a lore point of view, why should a nature spirit skill be more powerful than an Avatar of the Gods? I don't think anyone would agree if I claimed that the Bear Spirit is more powerful than Balthazar, so why should skills they grant be that way?

la_cabra_de_vida · May 03, 2008, 09:31 PM // 21:31

Quote:

Originally Posted by MasterSasori

This entire thread is brimming with reasons for both supporting and hating Ursan. You can easily find them if you look back.

My point is that its pve and shouldnt matter.

the savage nornbear · May 03, 2008, 09:35 PM // 21:35

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